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Host:  Bhavanesh Rengarajan – Principal Program Manager, Microsoft

Guest:  Maithili Dandige – Group Program Manager for Information Protection, Microsoft

Guest:  Randall Galloway – Senior Program Manager, Microsoft

Guest:  Joel Oleson – Director of Microsoft National Practice, Perficient


The following conversation is adapted from transcripts of Episode 2 of the Voices of Data Protection podcast.  There may be slight edits in order to make this conversation easier for readers to follow along.


This podcast features the leaders, program managers from Microsoft and experts from the industry to share details about the latest solutions and processes to help you manage your data, keep it safe and stay compliant.  If you prefer to listen to the audio of this podcast instead, please visit:


BHAVANESH: Hey all, welcome to Voices of Data Protection. I’m your host, Bhavanesh Rengarajan, and I’m a Principal Program Manager at Microsoft.  In this episode, I talk with Maithili Dandige, Joel Oleson, and Randall Galloway.

So, Maithili, we’ve heard a lot about these difficult times. It would be great to understand from you firsthand as to what are the top issues for our customers in and around the information protection space.


MAITHILI: One of the big ways I want to answer your question is from the point of view of data and users. If you see that 90% of our workforce moved home, what are some of the considerations that we need to consider with respect to information protection?


The biggest thing to think about is, look at your data, it follows where your information workers go. And so, the controls that you’ve put in place at work, now they need to work at home. That’s one aspect.


The second aspect that is to look at where these sensitive conversations are happening.  We saw a huge shift moving from not sharing of documents and emails, but a huge rise in chats and sensitive chats happening within our Teams workload.


When you look at one example that I can think about are board meetings and calls. These confidential meetings have now moved home. One has to think about the sensitivity of the discussion, which sensitive data should be allowed to share, and what are the aspects in which you need to save these records.  All of those concentrations come in context of the sensitivity around the data and the discussion.


When customers are thinking about information protection we provide, does it really fit their needs?  Because our controls work on all sorts of egress endpoints, whether they are our data at rest or data in transit, across emails, chats, and their third-party apps. One of the things we are doing with information protection is really building that unified policy that allows an admin to protect the data across all of their egress vectors.


RANDALL: Joel, where do you see customer challenges in information protection, in regard to the capabilities across a plethora of data sources? Maybe you can share some of your customer stories with us.


JOEL: Yeah, so the platform has the capabilities, and the capabilities continue to improve and improve. But what I’ve noticed is, organizations often are slow to even understand the capabilities. Just like I talk about organizational change management and adoption, a lot of it is educating those who are in charge of the technology to be able to understand they need to enable things, that the default settings often aren’t sufficient to be able to get the capabilities.


The Compliance Center, as an example, has been great for being able to do a quick assessment and understand industry-based requirements or organization-based requirements, to be able to say, what are the things we need to be able to do to ensure compliance across our Teams chats or across the videos that we may be storing and recording? And while it is different in different organizations, there’s some necessary requirements to be able to have success.


Success often starts with teaching IT or those in charge of the platform how to enable these things and getting that first line that are responsible for the technology platform aligned with the needs, so there’s information protection and governance really around the platform, making sure that the customer understands what’s necessary. As a consulting group, we often will spend time with IT to educate them on how to manage the platform.


BHAVANESH: Thanks a lot, Joel.  What I hear you say, is that we’ve had traditional DLP (data loss prevention), which has been running in Exchange and SharePoint Server for so many years now. Now, as we see this uptake in remote conversations over Teams, it’s really important that we infuse all these feature sets into Teams DLP, and more importantly, with respect to adoption, try to create that awareness with customers so that they understand exactly what knobs turn on and when.


Maithili, are you really betting heavily on solving some of these issues for our customers?


MAITHILI: I would say absolutely. I think one of the things that we see, and as Joel mentioned, automation is going to be key to helping our customers at this problem.


Let me give you an example. We just announced some of our new capabilities as part of Know Your Data pillar, and really the mission here for us is analytics and giving insights to admins and awareness of where their sensitive data is located.


As an example, if we can tell you that here is where your organization or parts of your organization are sharing sensitive data or in chats or in emails or documents, then you can come up with a more informed strategy of how you want to go about protecting that data. That is a big part and core part of our investments and you’ll see us do more and more work there.


The second part that we really want to help our customers, which has been a huge challenge for them, is assistance as they deploy the policy, because deploying a policy means that they actually have to fine tune it to meet their needs. Whether it’s for a regulatory purpose they’re doing it or for a security aspect to protect some sensitive or intellectual data, you need to kind of build that policy out and then test it out.


One of the capabilities that we’ve announced recently is called the Simulation Mode, and the Simulation Mode really helps the customer test their policies before they deploy, and we’ll be doing more of these assisted, intelligent technologies that really ease the onboarding for the customers and automate things on behalf of them. That’s kind of what I hope customers continue to benefit from as we launch these capabilities.


RANDALL:  Joel, are you seeing customers deploy MIP and DLP together or deploy independently, and is there a better together story there?


JOEL: There is a better together for sure, and in terms of customers and who uses what, when often I find that it comes down to some kind of compliance officer or somebody who’s concerned about IP. Often, it comes as part of the migration, moving the data to SharePoint Online or they see an uptick in Teams, and there’s this concern of data sprawl or there’s concern of data leaks. And all it takes is one little leak or attack, and all of a sudden, it’s the lights come on and it’s, hey, what is being shared, what is where.


Sometimes, there’s a proactive strategy where, when the data’s going in, we’re going to turn these things on, but often, people have been running SharePoint for a decade and there’s this question of, how can we be more sensitive about our data? We’re moving this data from on-prem to online; how do we get our arms around this?


What I find with those two different strategies, it’s the question of “How do we be more compliant from a perspective of Data Loss Prevention?  How we know where our data is going, and understanding where the boundaries are, where the edge is in terms of sharing?”  And a lot of the times, it’s the business that’s driving this sharing with partners or sharing with customers, and so basically, you’re getting a lot of this a lot closer to where the crown jewels are.


Then you see the compliance needs come in and say, hey, we’re oversharing here. We’re treating all the data the same and that’s not how we need to be doing it. This pendulum swing comes in where it pushes security to say, hey, we can’t do any of the sharing and it becomes debilitating.


There’s this question of, how do we wrestle this and just be such a way that we can actually start to compartmentalize and classify our data in such a way that we can actually, when we’re working with partner data, we’re essentially understanding whether it’s sensitive or not, and really being able to break that and classify that data up, and so these strategies of classification and understanding your data and being able to kind of get your arms around it so that you can have different policies for different data.


Then when you start getting down to the individual files, especially as it relates to sensitivity, one of my favorite stories, I’m working with the security team. They had just done a brute force test and they’ve got this report that shows all the vulnerabilities of the network.


And the security team — this is kind of funny. It’s like they’re sharing it with other members of the security team and they’re doing it over e-mail. And one of the guys on the security team says, “What are we doing? There is no password protection on this file. There is no tracking. What in the world? Who are we? How can we think that this is okay for us to be sharing company sensitive, ultra, uber sensitive information, and we’re passing it around an email? Where should this data be?”


It was kind of this major wakeup call to understand what the right ways are they should share information, how do we make sure that we’re actually getting the tracking we need, that there’s the not being able to share it outside the organization.


That’s where those rights managements and the policies around the file itself can become so important and was really a major wakeup call for our being able to understand classification of data and being able to make sure that not all data is treated equal, because not all data is equal.


RANDALL:  Joel, what are you seeing with customers in their organizations around regulatory challenges on how they do data management encryption? What are we seeing those customers accept as compliance?


JOEL: I think that compliance is something that has continued to evolve and the importance of it is absolutely critical when you think about things like GDPR, but absolutely things like HIPAA, the positioning of more of these, like the educational vertical, and even the healthcare verticals inside of Microsoft to be able to support this data.


I love being able to see support for patient data, because I think the default support and collaboration has been, everything gets treated the same. But in these organizations, we’ve traditionally kept our records separate from collaboration and we end up with these silos of information. What Microsoft 365 has been able to support is breaking down some of these silos.


But, what’s interesting about this is how, as we’re kind of breaking down some of these silos and allowing information to be classified and being able to even do some automation of the data and being able to keep the data where it lives but being able to add classification and compliance around the data where it lives.


I think that what’s interesting about these organizations has been, they’ve been able to do more with their data. As Microsoft’s been adding more and more features, as consultants we’ve been to get more involved in the compliance requirements.


And a great example of this, I was working in an organization where we were working in their collaboration environment, but there were absolutely some historical records and actually things that should have been records, but because of the ease of the platform, that business unit decided to store that data in the Microsoft 365 space, and they started getting more and more comfortable with the platform. Well, what they didn’t understand was there was features that we could use to be able to help them be more compliant with their data.


And so, as an example, we walked them through the Compliance Center, so they would understand things like DLP and like the rights management features to be able to say, here’s how we can leverage these sharing features, but also, from a compliance perspective, like, say, when you’re working with patient data, being able to keep it so that it’s not being shared, we can actually see who’s actually seen this data. A lot of this is just making sure that those features are enabled and turned on, based on the compliance, based on a number of requirements that the customers have, industry requirements that are coming down from governmental regulations even.


MAITHILI: When you mentioned the number of labels that organizations use and want an organization to think about, when you think about being successful at implementing MIP, the analogy that we use within the compliance world is very similar to what if folks are familiar with Marie Kondo, who kind of specializes in organizing and simplifying and sparking joy. I think the same kind of principles apply in some sense.


We talk to our customers, and one is like, think about all the things you want to edit, right? When you’re moving to the cloud, you want to think about all of the things you don’t want to bring to your new home. You might want to push some of these records, not bring them to the cloud. As you’re bringing them, you might want to think about different retention periods. You should also be thinking about information governance in context of information protection, as you think about your strategy.


Then when you think about organizing, you really want to create a very simple system, a system where you have no more than actually three to five labels to start with, especially for sensitivity labels, and really think hard about your assets, how you want to organize, and then how do you want to educate your end users? Because keep that solution simple so that you can actually be successful in maintaining that system. And as you’re getting success, then you can think about over time adding more policies. And so, very much the Marie Kondo approach also applies to customers.



To learn more about this episode of the Voices of Data Protection podcast, visit:

For more on Microsoft Information Protection & Governance, click here.

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Follow Microsoft Security on Twitter and LinkedIn.


Keep in touch with Bhavanesh on LinkedIn.

Keep in touch with Maithili on LinkedIn.

Keep in touch with Joel on LinkedIn and Perficient’s website.

Keep in touch with Randall on LinkedIn.

Brought to you by Dr. Ware, Microsoft Office 365 Silver Partner, Charleston SC.

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